TTP3 - New Security - 1 Dec 2010

[Pr1ma L4ker]

It is encouraging to see more feedback fr fellow residents and also the support shown to the Pro-Tem Comm. Actually, there are two main concerns now. One - concerns by PAYING residents and Two, concerning NON-PAYING residents.

1) Concerns by PAYING residents - the general feeling is, though the security service is way better than the ones before, they still can be improved. Till now, simple issues like checking their mobile phones while car is waiting is still going on. More concerns unresolved are listed in above posts so I will not repeat, but only hope the Security Company can come back with their feedback.

2) Concerning NON-PAYING residents - I personally like the idea of posting up the payment status of all residents, LOL! But 'professionally' not too sure whether it is the right thing, I worry for Lee's safety! Also, how many will actually stop and read the list? Another way to highlight this is using 'emblems' but I know this is a costly exercise, do we have the funds? ctal's suggestion of cards for monthly and stickers for quarterly payments can be considered. One way to remove the abuse of stickers. I agree that ultimately, it is a mentality thing but some people take longer to learn than others. Dont let them pull the rest down.

The two main concerns above are equally important and deserve equal attention. I believe the Pro-Tem Comm has the backing of the majority and everyone will try to help them solve the non-paying issues. On the other hand, the Pro-Tem Comm also needs to support back the paying residents on keeping tabs on the efficiency of the security company.

[ong1057]

Hi all,
I wish to give feedback on several issues so please bear
with me if I seem to jump from one to another.
1. I agree with Helen that the guards must not allow
strangers/visitors in so easily. Stop them & insist on
id before allowing them in. There may be some
congestion because of this but this is the price
we have to pay, nothing comes free as the saying
goes.
2. Thank you leecs for your diligence. I admire your
patience going round explainining to these
difficult people.
3. Jan we collected only 50% but previously 80%.
Some difficult people think they are smart,
now they think they have the blue stickers,
for 3 months they can come in and out without
hassle. I suggest a 'strategy' to outsmart these
cheapskates. There is nothing to stop us from
changing the rule a bit. I suggest although it is
only one month we change the colour of the
stickers( I understand they are not too expensive),
say to 'orange'. Dont forget to reisssue for free
to those who have paid for 3 months. Then
inform everyone and the guards that wief
the blue stickers are cancelled and cars
without the new stickers will be stopped.
Sounds a bit like military but I think
that's the way to treat these freeloaders.
4. Potholes. clogged drains, water logged
& etc. These are MPSJ matters. MPSJ
is quite responsive. I posted some
time back that I complained about
grasscutting & rubbish collection
and in 3 days all done, on top
of that I received 2 letters from
them, the 2nd one saying they
have acted on my complaint so
I suggest we all complain on
MPSJ website, be specific what & where.
Cheers.

[spiderman]

Keep changing the sticker is a hassle, not to mention the cost.

Is it too much to ask everyone to pay for 3 months? I remember back then with Bolton, we received invoices every 3 months. So I assume ppl who bother to pay , make payment for 3 months. By collecting every 3 months, will save hell lot of times and hassle. Also less receipts issued to save some paper ma....

Well, this is just my personal opinion.

[spiderman]

I'm constantly exiting with guard house A, due to the fact that guard house B is unsafe with the row of cars that park at the side, leaving only one car lane. I don't mind shutting down guard house A, if that would improve our security. However, we need to have a solution for those cars that park at the road side near the guard house. They will create another bottleneck.

[ong1057]

I'm not suggesting we collect monthly and change sticker every month. I'm suggesting
only this time to beat the freeloaders who paid for Dec & were given 3 month blue
sticker. It's not possible to ask them to return now so we cancel it but for future
we have to think a way to streamline collection. May be 3 month sticker only to
those who pay 3 months. Cheers.

[leecs]

I agreed with Mei Fun that the convenience is one of the concern of most residents here besides of securities. We are now still finding the best solution to balance up with security and convenience.

On the guards' courtesy issue, we have given the feedback to the security company on this matter, but we must know they are humans too, they are working very hard and stressful being a security guard, they are foreigners, the language that they are using would not be very polite one, just some simple words that can convey the message, if their ability is as good as us, they long time already be our neighbours and working as high-pay expats.

my suggestion to Mei Fun's question 1:
For regular visitors, if that possible that the residents make a Special Authorized Pass (with written I/C no) as, so tht they can show it to the Guards without leaving their own I/C or Lesen?
This may speed up their checking procedure.

>> Just get them a RM2 sticker (very cheap lar, selling at cost price weh), since they are your regular visitors. We really dont want to fight with regular visitors, father-mother-brothers-sisters of the residents.

Question 2:
For those who refuse to make mthly payment.
Maybe we can put a "Reminder" signboard in front of the guard house so that everyone will know who is not co-operative.

>> We are considering this option too.

[Ramesh Ramoo]

Hi All,

Adding to what Lee has said here, there are residents whose visitors are still mocking at the guards for not letting them in because they refuse to leave their identification.

After I last night meeting with Security Company, we also considering not holding any identification but only taking the details as it might create other problems due to manpower issues.

We have highlighted some of the relevant issues reported here and the security company will take necessary action on this areas.

I would like to thank all the feedback given and hope more feedbacks will continue to come in to enhance our service.
Do remember that all feedback will be discuss and consider before convey to security company as they are some grey areas that committee need to consider for the benefit of the residents. Do not get offended if your suggestion is not taken into consideration. Some of these suggestions will not be open discussion due to consideration of other factor that might offend majority of the residents here.

Residents need understand the committees are very careful on certain areas that might stir some issue and displease some of the residents. The committee is trying their best to do their best to make everyone happy but there will be small percentage so the residents will be still unpleased on some areas. We cannot get 100% right and satisfy everyone needs.

We hope many more residents will come forward to give us your hands to make this happen rather than being the remote controlling and giving instruction. The more the merry it will be, so come and join hands to make our resident better place to stay. All of us would like to have dream home and we can make that happen if we work for it. There are lots more things still can be done.

Thank you guys thus far for the feedback and effort taken and I hope many more will participate in the feedback in this forum.

Thanks.

[ericcws]

Generally, displaying emblems and put some residents in hall of shame is not an ethical solution. This may even provoke some people. I think most of us have been wondering at what percentage of collection that these fees will be sufficient to maintain these guards at the guard house; 60%, 70% or 80%? We need some transparencies from the committee members too.

Guess the only solution right now is to ask for 3 months of payment in advance when new color stickers are distributed out. There is no need to print and change them every month. We are talking cost and the extra waste (rubbish) created here.

Also can we know when will the next residents meeting be please?

We need guards not only to be stationed and sit in the guard house at all time. It will be nice if they can ride a motorbike and patrolling around at certain hours instead of just sit and wait for the time to past. Again, I'm comparing this with Nepalese security guards in Bangsar Lucky Garden where the residents only forge out and pay RM30 monthly. If they can get this service with RM20 lesser than us in KL, why can't our security guards company providing it? Take cost of living in KL and Puchong as a factor.

And has anyone check whether it's legal to hold visitors' ID or driving license at the guard house? The question is do we have the rights to do so? These are important documents and we know MyKad can do wonders nowadays. I don't think recording them in a log book will take a lot of time. It's a matter of efficiency and speed. The security company can tell us 101 excuses here but we are the customers. We custom the service to suit our needs. Adopt the 'can-do' attitude. If the guards are illiterate, let the visitors fill in on their own. And how many visitors we can have in a day? Except for wedding and functions, TP 3/1 is a quiet neighborhood.

Thank you.

[ericcws]

To add on the feedback above, after visitors fill in the details in guest log book, it is compulsory for security guards to verify the details against the real MyKad and return to visitors immediately on the spot.

[samnesh]

Jan 7, 2011 10:00:10 GMT 7 ericcws said:

Generally, displaying emblems and put some residents in hall of shame is not an ethical solution. This may even provoke some people. I think most of us have been wondering at what percentage of collection that these fees will be sufficient to maintain these guards at the guard house; 60%, 70% or 80%? We need some transparencies from the committee members too.

Guess the only solution right now is to ask for 3 months of payment in advance when new color stickers are distributed out. There is no need to print and change them every month. We are talking cost and the extra waste (rubbish) created here.

Also can we know when will the next residents meeting be please?

We need guards not only to be stationed and sit in the guard house at all time. It will be nice if they can ride a motorbike and patrolling around at certain hours instead of just sit and wait for the time to past. Again, I'm comparing this with Nepalese security guards in Bangsar Lucky Garden where the residents only forge out and pay RM30 monthly. If they can get this service with RM20 lesser than us in KL, why can't our security guards company providing it? Take cost of living in KL and Puchong as a factor.

And has anyone check whether it's legal to hold visitors' ID or driving license at the guard house? The question is do we have the rights to do so? These are important documents and we know MyKad can do wonders nowadays. I don't think recording them in a log book will take a lot of time. It's a matter of efficiency and speed. The security company can tell us 101 excuses here but we are the customers. We custom the service to suit our needs. Adopt the 'can-do' attitude. If the guards are illiterate, let the visitors fill in on their own. And how many visitors we can have in a day? Except for wedding and functions, TP 3/1 is a quiet neighborhood.

Thank you.

Dear ericcws and fellow forumers/residents,

Thanks for your concern and constant feed back. Yesterday, we have discussed many of the issues raised on this site. I feel it is about time for all residents to understand the current issues and problems faced by us before they shoot questions or even criticize one another..

Issue #1a:- (Displaying the details of "defaulters" / non members)
Sorry to use the word "defaulters". I think the word "Non Member" would be more appropriate as those residents that have not settled their dues for December 2010 (even after several visits to their houses). They refuse to join us. So, what shall we do with these "Non Members"? They have all kind of excuses to avoid paying RM 50/ a month but instead give a million reasons to not pay. I open this question to the floor so that we can get some ideas to tackle this problem effectively but make sure your suggestions are legal as far as the law is concern. This "Non Paying" resident is so rude or ignorant not they don't seem to be bothered. We cant do anything about them as the law does not allow us to do so.. Many residents have said that the guards are letting so many cars without stickers into our taman. Dear residents, our taman is a public place and the roads are public roads, not a private land for us to implement rules and regulations according to our wishes. We have no right to even stop anybody from entering our taman but we are doing so just to ensure the security is tight and better than not doing so. What the guards are doing is actually illegal but for the best interest of our residents, we have authorized them to do so.

Issue #1b:- (Payment / Cost of Security Service)
I shall leave this dept to Mr Lee, our very very dedicated and hard working Treasurer to explain further as it involves a lot of figures. I have all the confidence in him and I am sure he has all the details we need. Mr. Lee, I suggest you publish the accounts on this site, so that all forumers have access and it shows our transparency and sincere commitment to ensure that this project is a success for the benefit of everyone.

Issue #2:- (Car Stickers)
Talking about stickers, it is a waste of time and money to have it changed every 3 months. All we have to do is to ensure all Paying Members settle their dues on time and we will be able to pay the guards. We are still "forced" to allow entry of Non Paying Members who do not even have stickers or Errant Visitors who even shout and hurl foul language at our guards for doing their duty. We have no legal standing in preventing / obstructing any person from entering our Taman. It is an offense under sec 339 of the Penal Code and carries a penalty of 1 month jail or max RM1k fine. So pls understand that we cant be too harsh in implementing our rules and regulations to these people at the entry post.

Issue #3:-(Next Resident Meeting)
We hope to have the next meeting asap but the cost factor comes into play. The last residents meeting cost around RM1.5k. Maybe we can have a Chinese New Year get together if majority of our residents are in support of it. If not, next meeting will sure be held latest by 30/06/2011 as to review our performance and response from fellow residents and hopefully our Residence Association would be registered with ROC by then.

Issue #4:-(Monthly payment.. RM50 or RM30???)
We will be happier to pay RM30 instead of RM50 per month. Maybe you can forward us the contact details of the respective Security Firm that seems to be providing a more efficient service at a lower cost. But please quote that we have 3 guards working in the morning and 3 more at night. So, total of 6 guards for a month. How much will this cost? If their quote is cheaper than our current firm, then we should consider them seriously. So, pl furnish us with more details as it is our priority to operate at the lowest cost with moderate but efficient service.

Issue #5:-(Retaining Personal Documents)
Yes, the guards have to right to retain another persons personal documents, such as IC, Passport or Driving License.. This is why we are planning to improve the system at the entry post, such as:-
i) No retaining any personal documents.
ii) No more issuance of "Visitor Pass" as it is a waste of time and money. The reason for retaining these documents is to ensure the "Visitor Pass" is returned.
iii) Visitor Pass cost around RM1/= each) for lamination.
iv) Reduce the hassle of guards having to look for the respective IC / License at exit point, thus interrupting their duties at entry point.
v) Nobody is going to be responsible if any of these personal documents are lost or mis-used.
Therefore, we believe that a proper book / register is maintained to record down the basic info of the visitor, such as Vehicle No, House Address, Name & IC No. according to the IC or License. Then the Visitor can even exit at Post "A", thus reducing traffic flow and chaos at Post "B".
vi) There are many visitors frequenting our Taman. Esp. on weekends. According to Mr. Lee who was at Post "B" from 10am to 6pm on 01/01/11 and 02/01/11, at least 100 to 150 visitors during this period. Remember, we have 347 units in our Taman. Lots of us have visitors on weekends, friends and family. Sometimes 2 or 3 cars at the same time. We can't print so many "Visitor Pass", plus our guards can't cope with the traffic flow, as we only have 2 guards at Post "B" at any one time.

I apologize for this very long post. I know most of us are busy with a lot of things but I have been wanting to address all this issues for a very long time. Hope to get some positive feedback from all forumers to make our Taman a better place to live in. Also wish to thank all the "Paying Members" for your support and the Pro Tem Committee guys for your relentless effort in trying to keep this project alive.

Thank you. ;D

[Pr1ma L4ker]

Am hearing a lot about 'transparency' issues and would like to express my opinion. Yes, ultimately, it is important, but for now, I think a little trust is more important. A very blunt point - if the current Pro-Tem (PT) comm do not initiate this, all of us residents will be without security services. Plus the fact that they did the process with proper steps and has proven true to their word, the boom gate is an example, I think at least give them a benefit of the doubt for now and let them prove themselves. Who else would volunteer to do all this? Please note that I am saying this as a normal resident and I am not a Pro Tem comm member.

Knowing the percentage of collection that is sufficient to pay the security company, though is good to know, should not be the main focus for now. As a community, all of us should contribute our part. Obviously, RM50 is more than sufficient IF everyone pays. However, the buffer is there to cushion teething problems, most prevalent being shortfall of collection. If everyone pays consistently, PT comm has stated that they will look into avenues to return the excess funds to the community, eg. upgrade the security (using electronic tags for eg.), community events or even reducing the monthly fees.

It is true that our roads are public roads. In fact, there are recent debates on whether gated communities are even legal. However, technicalities aside, the reality is that our community is not safe. We therefore have to look out for ourselves first. Having a security post is one way and though I agree on the legality issue, I still believe our guards have roles and responsibilities. Yes, they have no right to inhibit people from entering. But with their mere presence and professionalism, they act as a powerful deterrent to anything negative. Thats why most of my feedback are concerning their professionalism in their work. I also hope the PT comm can give them support esp when they are heckled at or abused if they verify vehicles. THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING. I do not want to pay RM50 for someone who just raises the gate.

Also, residents need to be more patient if they need to queue. It is for their own security afterall. I also think that through time, they will be able to recognise residents and their vehicles better, hence the traffic flow could only improve.

For visitors, it needs to be said that no one is legally allowed to take possession of their IC. Not even the police. I think taking down of particulars is the next best option and thats what I suggest. We have to remember that our situation is different from condos/apartments or private buildings. Residents having parties could also help by informing the security so that they are aware of sudden influx of vehicles.

I am not sure whether abolishing the stickers is the right thing at the moment. As said earlier, only 50% paid in Jan. This is a big decline from Dec and in such a short period. It still might be a useful 'tool' to remind/encourage people to support the cause.

PT comm, I understand that there will definitely be some people in our residence who has a different opinion on the security and about paying for it. I say let them be and don't waste your time. As long as the majority is here to break-even the fees. Most important is we explain and encourage them. If it is the will of the community not to pay up then too bad, we have to forego the security. This is democracy after all.

Lastly, until we have a proper meeting, I believe forum like this is a good alternative. Ramesh has done a good job here and this should be shared among all. I suggest the forum's site address be included in the next bulletin or circular. This will foster better ties and understanding between residents and the PT team.

Thanks.

[leecs]

If there is anyone here want to know on the transparency of the accounts, feel free to let me know, I am ready to explain, from records (no kidding, whole lots of name lists, car registration numbers, and N time of updates), receipt books, ledger, banking transactions, invoices, payments vouchers and expenditure details, records and references.

Each and everyone of the expenses has to be signed by atleast 2 people. If there is any expenses amount exceeding RM500, the payment must be made in Banker's Cheques to the payee's account. Chairman and secretary and the receipient must sign on the vouchers with their name, IC no. and phone numbers too. Big amount expenses must have atleast 4 persons to verify to get the approval. Committee members have full rights to inspect at all time.

December 2010 we have achieved 87.03% inclusive of empty houses; January 2011 is ok, currently we already achieved 63.69%.

Once again, thanks to everyone who are concern about our progress, we hope we can work with each other to make the Residents Association successful.

[leecs]

Update as at today 8th January 2011: 246 houses have paid January fees (70.89%)

Thanks to Ramesh who helping on the collection.

[ong1057]

Dear forumers/residents,
Most of the issues being discussed are only teething problems
which we encounter when we embark on something new and
these will pass away with time. I remember that at the
residents dialogue in Nov which was very well attended
we were clearly told that to break even financially 63%
of residnts must pay up so it's really good news in
leecs latest post he said 71% has paid up. Well done
PT comm. You still have my support.
Cheers.

[Ramesh Ramoo]

Hi All,

Thanks to all the residents who has given the encouragement to help us to carry on what we are doing.

It’s a good idea posted by Pr1ma L4ker, the forum's site address be included in the next bulletin or circular and we will do that on the next bulletin.

The majority’s feedback that we got base are ‘Everything is ok and we are happy with current security’. We hope to keep this going with the help from you.

I would like to thank all the residents who had paid up and hope you will continue to do so to make our home a save home.

Thanks.